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January 03, 2009
Israel -- Shame on you
Posted by Arthur Fink

Stories about Israel's savage attacks on mostly civilian targets in Gaza are horrifying. Incredible pain is being inflicted upon civilians, in apparent retaliation for Hamas attacks on Israel.

As a Quaker pacifist, I don't subscribe to any calculus that allows one killing and not another, that identifies some wars as being "just", or any such. But I'm not blind the to disparity here. Hamas has lobbed projectiles at Israel, killing few. Israel has unleashed a massive and continued attack.

Put aside the morality. All reports I've heard indicate that the anger and resolve of Palestinians have only increased. The difficulty of a true peace settlement - that is clearly in Israel's interest - has increased. Israel's attacks have brought more suffering and less hope for all of us.

When will American jews, and the rest of our nation, get the courage to criticize such behavior from Israel? When will those Jewish ideals of justice and mercy be put into action?

Posted by Arthur Fink at 05:25 AM

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Comments

This is getting old quite fast. Israel is simply responding to attacks from and entity - namely Hamas - that wishes the destruction of the state of Israel and the killing of all Jews. Although civilians have tragically been impacted, the IDF purposely targets Hamas militants while taking all steps possible to mitigate damage to non-targets. Hamas, on the other hand, intentionally targets citizens. If Hamas - or a sane leader - lays down arms and recognizes Israel's right to exist the fighting would end post haste. As far as disproportionate numbers of casualties goes, what is that? It would be o.k. if more Jews were dying? Give it up. Israel was legally formed by U.N. decree - it's here to stay. Hamas should work on taking steps to care for it's own people.

Posted by Robert
January 3, 2009 09:43 AM

Every country has a right, indeed an obligation, to defend its citizens from attacks. Israel has shown great restraint in responding to the many missile attacks by Hamas in recent years. However, with Hamas acquiring much longer range, more accurate and larger warhead missiles, Israel has no choice but to destroy Hamas. Although the Hamas missiles have killed relatively few, it's not from the lack of trying. Since it's likely that Hamas will use even more powerful and accurate missiles in the future, now is the time to destroy these aggressors by whatever means necessary.

Posted by Andy Ford
January 3, 2009 10:55 AM

Since Hamas insists on using the civilian population to cloak its missile launching sites, I would have to question the accuracy of the description, "Israel's savage attacks on mostly civilian targets in Gaza". Hamas has become adept at manipulating world opinion (and "pacifists") while continuing its unrelenting attempts to target ONLY Israeli civilian population centers.

Hamas has continually and purposely violated every cease fire that the government of Israel has agreed to, firing over 3,000 missiles into Israelie territory during this last useless attempt to bring some semblance of peace to the area.

The concept of placing all of the responsibility and blame on Israel has always confounded me. The psychotic hatred and rage of the organizations such as Hamas, the willingness to destroy their own citizens to achieve their evil goals should make it clear that diplomatic and "moral" persuasions are not effective in dealing with murderous madmen, no more than it would be effective to allow such creatures to roam your neighborhood with impunity.

Courageous behavior, in this case, would be for the international community to outlaw Hamas and other radical homicidal groups. If nations are not attacked, then they have no reason to respond. And the argument that Hamas is a nation is faulty in the extreme.

The only reason that Israel continues to exist is because of its willingness to combat its enemies. Our homegrown "pacifists" are content to continue to enable the violence perpetrated by terrorists and radical Islam by insisting that the blame be shared by the victims of these inexcusable attacks.

Mr. Fink, I find it difficult to understand your reasoning.

Posted by Peter Cutler
January 3, 2009 12:26 PM

There are two peoples who make claims to the same land. The Gaza population has a militia that is waging a guerrilla war against Israel's military and its civilians. The result is a terribly high casualty rate among Gaza civilians during Israeli defense operations. The author asks when American Jews and our nation are going to criticize Israeli behavior and when Jews will put their professed justice into action. The larger question, and more important one in that context, is what is justice in this situation? How can a lasting peace be achieved? If Israel is to give something for peace, what should it give. Hamas wants destruction of Israel and its inhabitants. Surely, that cannot be what Israel offers. What should the Palestinian Arabs give for peace? The process needs thoughtful commentary, not offhand criticism. Being a pacifist is laudable. Being a fully informed and thoughtful pacifist is better.

Posted by Irwin Brodsky
January 3, 2009 01:34 PM

While your principles are well-meaning, the ends of your means are not. Hamas has two core principles of its religion: killing Jews and making martyrs of its own people. Hamas is solely repsonsible for the current imbroglio. It has, repetedly, declined peace. Now it must pay the price for its poor choices. Nothing sort of complete and permanent cessation of all attacks on Israel will be acceptable. Mr. Fink--your arguments were wrong in 1936 and they are wrong now. The moral argument doesn't wash when you are confronted with hateful evil in the form of Hamas and other terror groups.

Posted by Martin McIntosh
January 3, 2009 01:49 PM

I thank the other commentors that were able to so eloquently state the facts correctly. It is high time that people took off their blinders and stopped critizing for a country defending themselves. The US attacked Afganistan AND Iraq over the attack on the World Trade Center, Isreal is contantly being bombarded by thugs and everyone screams at them saying it is unjust? Wake Up! Pacifist or not, the commentary is just pure ignorance of the facts.

Posted by Jeff
January 3, 2009 03:03 PM

Oh-I get it. Israel is suppose to wait until they have a "significantly-acceptable" body count on their soil before they are justified in defending themselves? With all due respect Mr. Finks that kind of rational is ludicrous at best. Remember this folks-if Israel did NOT have the means to defend itself there would most assuredly be another holocaust in the Middle East. Hamas has already promised the world that will happen if they ever have the means. Wake up-people! Hamas is a terrorist organization fervently and whoeheartedly supported by the Palestinians. Make no mistake about that.

Posted by David Bartholomew
January 4, 2009 08:35 AM

How can we who are involved in wars on 2 fronts based on intelligence (which certainly wasn't) related to 9/11, judge those who have daily endured a barage of terror the rest of the world has become immune to? While I am not at all a proponent of Israels decision, I also do not believe that we as a people are in a position of expressing opposition to actions taken by another country when we ourselves have so clearly set the example.

Posted by Cynthia
January 4, 2009 10:49 AM

Let us remind ourselves how we got to this point.
Terrorism, pure and simple; we learn from our past.
Zionists bombed the king David hotel in 1946, the British caved in and Palestine was split in 2. Who says terrorism never wins.
How would you feel if someone took half of your property and overtime agreed to give some of it back, at some point, but rather keeps building and moving folks onto the land you have talked about getting back.

Posted by Mike
January 4, 2009 01:52 PM

We are all sure that every country has right to defense itself against terrorist attaks. But this situation is totally different even if we accept Hamas as a terrorist. From the view of Hamas the situation is the same as Israel.Hamas see Israel as an occupier in their territories. Considering that this is a terrorism, why civilian people who are totally innocent must suffer? How can people kill 10 innocent people just for 1 criminal. Terrorists must be found and seperated from civilians then. Israel chose the simple and fast way and killed people without seperating children, women or civilians. On the other hand, considering that this is a war but not a terrorism, then Israel is completely unfair. Unbalanced force use, massive attacks with anger and violence shows that it is more than a war:it may be defined as "violence". In wars there must be peace attemps at least before deciding to war. Beyond that, Israel never lets entering medical and food help for civilians. This is unacceptable.

Posted by James
January 4, 2009 04:39 PM

As a pacifist, you relinquish your authority to judge sides in a conflict.

Pacifism is an intellectually and morally bankrupt philosophy. I would bet that, if pressed, you might discover that you are, like the rest of us, a proponent of the moral use of violence.

Posted by Sharky
January 4, 2009 10:47 PM

The gross violence began when Israel refused to allow basic humanitarian needs into Gaza as the Israel government had agreed to do. In 1948 the Gaza Strip was used as a concentration camp for the Arabs who did not want to give up their land, land on which their families had lived for generations. Now Israel is aiming for the Final Solution since genocide is too slow. Israel's timing was to tie the hands of our incoming president since they were not sure that Obama would give them unquestioning obedience or at least indifference to their planned aggression against Gaza. Therefore this agression had been planned even before the end of the cease fire.

Posted by sister sue
January 5, 2009 12:31 AM

Gaza is trying to defend itself against the continuing genocide by the Israelis. The Gaza Strip in 1948 became a concentration camp for 40,000 Palestinian Arabs who objected to their land being taken away by the Jewish settlers. Now, with this aggression, the Israelis are working toward a Final Solution to the problem of these Arabs and their descendants.

Posted by Sister Sue
January 5, 2009 12:38 AM

Arthur, Your comments are so to the point! Only a just Israel can be a secure Israel. I feel a despair and helplessness that can only pale in comparison to that of the peoples of Israel-Palestine who want peace, who want a secure place to live with dignity. Jewish people from all over the globe need to be courageous and speak up in opposition to the occupation and, most recently, to the massacre of the people of Gaza--- those of us who are not Jewish too often are criticized and described as "anti-Semitic". This detracts from the important moral introspection that needs to occur. Thank you for your bravery!

Posted by Sally Bowden-Schaible
January 5, 2009 07:10 PM

Arthur, Your comments are so to the point! Only a just Israel can be a secure Israel. I feel a despair and helplessness that can only pale in comparison to that of the peoples of Israel-Palestine who want peace, who want a secure place to live with dignity. Jewish people from all over the globe need to be courageous and speak up in opposition to the occupation and, most recently, to the massacre of the people of Gaza--- those of us who are not Jewish too often are criticized and described as "anti-Semitic". This detracts from the important moral introspection that needs to occur. Thank you for your bravery!

Posted by Sally Bowden-Schaible
January 5, 2009 07:12 PM

Arthur, Your comments are so to the point! Only a just Israel can be a secure Israel. I feel a despair and helplessness that can only pale in comparison to that of the peoples of Israel-Palestine who want peace, who want a secure place to live with dignity. Jewish people from all over the globe need to be courageous and speak up in opposition to the occupation and, most recently, to the massacre of the people of Gaza--- those of us who are not Jewish too often are criticized and described as "anti-Semitic". This detracts from the important moral introspection that needs to occur. Thank you for your bravery!

Go to the following for a BBC report related to what is happening in Gaza. The person being interviewed is a Western physician in Gaza --- an important perspective. http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/mpapps/pagetools/email/news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7812286.stm

Posted by Sally Bowden-Schaible
January 5, 2009 07:16 PM

Arthur, Your comments are so to the point! Only a just Israel can be a secure Israel. I feel a despair and helplessness that can only pale in comparison to that of the peoples of Israel-Palestine who want peace, who want a secure place to live with dignity. Jewish people from all over the globe need to be courageous and speak up in opposition to the occupation and, most recently, to the massacre of the people of Gaza--- those of us who are not Jewish too often are criticized and described as "anti-Semitic". This detracts from the important moral introspection that needs to occur. Thank you for your bravery!

Go to the following for a BBC report related to what is happening in Gaza. The person being interviewed is a Western physician in Gaza --- an important perspective:

http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/mpapps/pagetools/email/news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7812286.stm

Posted by Sally Bowden-Schaible
January 5, 2009 07:17 PM

Arthur, Your comments are so to the point! Only a just Israel can be a secure Israel. I feel a despair and helplessness that can only pale in comparison to that of the peoples of Israel-Palestine who want peace, who want a secure place to live with dignity. Jewish people from all over the globe need to be courageous and speak up in opposition to the occupation and, most recently, to the massacre of the people of Gaza--- those of us who are not Jewish too often are criticized and described as "anti-Semitic". This detracts from the important moral introspection that needs to occur. Thank you for your bravery!

Go to the following for a BBC report related to what is happening in Gaza. The person being interviewed is a Western physician in Gaza --- an important perspective:

http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/mpapps/pagetools/email/news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/7812286.stm

Posted by Sally Bowden-Schaible
January 5, 2009 07:17 PM

Neither the facts nor international law support those who attack Mr. Fink's post. Those who know the work of esteemed Israei historians Ilan Pappe and Benny Morris know that the early Zionists intended to take virtually all of ancient Palestine as their own, began the process of "ethic cleansing" (Morris's and Pappe's term), and Palestinians have had to live with the ceaseless taking of their lands ever since. As journalist/scholar Nir Rosen explains, "When [the Palestinians] understand that there is an irreversible dynamic stripping them of their land and identity with the support of an overwhelming power, then they are forced to resort to whatever methods of resistance they can muster." So talk about "thugs" and "terrorists" who refuse to live in peace with Israel comes from people who know neither the current facts (e.g., it was Israel, NOT Hamas who broke the most recent cease-fire)nor the underlying history of this tragedy.

Posted by Robert Schaible
January 5, 2009 07:35 PM

Neither the facts nor international law support those who attack Mr. Fink's post. Those who know the work of esteemed Israei historians Ilan Pappe and Benny Morris know that the early Zionists intended to take virtually all of ancient Palestine as their own, began the process of "ethic cleansing" (Morris's and Pappe's term), and Palestinians have had to live with the ceaseless taking of their lands ever since. As journalist/scholar Nir Rosen explains, "When [the Palestinians] understand that there is an irreversible dynamic stripping them of their land and identity with the support of an overwhelming power, then they are forced to resort to whatever methods of resistance they can muster." So talk about "thugs" and "terrorists" who refuse to live in peace with Israel comes from people who know neither the current facts (e.g., it was Israel, NOT Hamas who broke the most recent cease-fire)nor the underlying history of this tragedy.

Posted by Robert Schaible
January 5, 2009 07:41 PM

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